A brothel by any other name, stinks all the same.
snipes14, 3May2010, 12:51 PM wrote:
Thanks for your response, ya, maybe to you= 'extreme b/w response', but nothing wrong with discussing a 'purist' idea right?
Your opinion, I politely reject.
Dun think my opinions the extreme, think the 'hourly' rates are the 'extreme'.
Serviced apts, by law, as I u'stand, CANNOT rent U apt for <7days- this right is reserved for the benefit of Hotels only. So this aspect the business of genuine hotels and Backpackers inns is established and provided adequately for. For those requiring the facilitation of vice to survive, a better business model is called for and the powers that be ought see to that.
Singapore is a small place, not like maybe M'sia where there is need to stop driving- rest- drive on, Singapore for ANY form of vehicular traffic is often a terminal destination. For those engaging in any decent restful activity, they have ample backpacker's hostels and daily rated budget hotels to choose from. In addition, backpacker's hostels serve a valid tourist niche and Singapore as a safe and healthy destination, should actively promote their proper development as they woo the young and trendy traveler.
In regard to Budget Hotels (BH) running mostly hourly rates, these can at best be described as controversial businesses moving down a slippery slope and, predictably bringing down the morals of Singaporeans with it.
I doubt and tourist inadvertently residing in any such hotel would return with in any way, a good impression Singapore. The streets filled with 'walkers', its 'ti kor pek' citizens- the main clientele.
Romanian diplomat Ionescu undoubtedly went overboard whilst performing his 'duties' here, both 'provider' and connoisseur of vice here, could the conduciveness of the current local scene have played a part?
Hourly rated BH have the commercial imperative towards creating sleazy districts, since by virtue of their business model, they become obligated to promote promiscuity, both nationally as well as internationally. One cannot have one's cake and eat it as the sleaze drives away genuine tourist, leaving the BH with no choice but to exploit the route of sleaze facilitation.
This stratagem also requires a covert means of silencing as well as dispersing dissenting existing residents; and to facilitate profit from the momentum of vice, the compromise of government administration through bribery and other covert/ coercive means towards achieving social degradation.
Government officials can also be expected to be often bribed as the visible viability and 'profitability' of such establishments tempt more to follow.
NONE of the outcomes of such vice are of any social NOR economic benefit to our society nor that of our surrounding neighbors.
Whilst the banning of hourly rates would not preclude such vice from occurring, it would however enable the policing and regulation of such vices to be much done much more efficiently and cost effectively.
The ultimate 'victims' of this current situation would be ultimately be Singaporeans/ 'Permanent residents' of Singapore since tourist on family vacations are unlikely to patronize such services AND require hourly accommodation in this respect.
Persons from neighboring countries might also, through the internet, make 'bookings' with popular girls, however, a host of other problems by association accompany this breed of 'tourist'.
The fiscal and social cost of continuing to allow hourly rated hotels is estimated to be immense not perpetuated by many civil servants, whom I feel are ill prepared to perform the currently onerous duties as 'anti-vice' officers- a few of whom have been publicly admonished having sought favours from charges whom they were employed to supervise/ penalize [Dec 2, 2008: 'ICA officer charged'], [ST 17Nov 2009: '2 NEA officers charged over sexual bribe']. Has promiscuity entrenched itself as popular culture in Singapore such that civil servants are equally tempted. Our 'pay more to prevent corruption' policies have indeed failed.
snipes14 wrote:
I have NOT in this current thread, solely premised my arguments upon the problem of 'exploitation'. It is the fabric of trust within our society, that without which, degrades humanity into a zoo of wild animals, no 'progress' is then possible except regression towards extinction if U draw this arguement to its logical conclusion that is.
Prostitution might be an 'ancient profession', yes, but it not be 'facilitated' in the way it currently is in modern day Singapore.
So U do as U wish, with little care nor nor focus on social mores?- No wonder Singapore society is steadily going down the drain.
Ditto answered 3 lines above, and as I later describe, the social cost would be one where even you would be ill equipped to afford/ sustain.
No reason for our govt 'subsidizing' the operations of such Brothels ahem, sorry, Hourly rated budget hotels as they they are now termed. Whose to pay the social costs of the broken marriages, shortened lives (HIV/ other diseases of the like), orphaned children (by parental divorce or by death), Healthcare subsidies for $$$expensive anti-retrovirals, hospitalizations that would be needed, costs of subsidised rental housing for those who have sold their flats and spent their CPF on their 'Geylang hobby' not to mention the immediate and daily cost in policing, monitoring and persecuting offenders, anti-vice officers and even foreign diplomats who themselves are ever so often are tempted to offend and re-offend given the vast loopholes of an unsustainable system.
So heroin on the streets- willing buyer/ seller is okay, if U indeed are Singaporean, then i really don't blame U cos if U have paraphrased the 'noble' words as quoted in the first post:
"... Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew admits in his biography that prostitution is an industry that is impossible to ban and it is better to have it in the open than driven underground....", replacing prostitution with any other vice for that matter wouldn't be too far fetched an argument to ponder.
Perhaps then it wouldn't be too unwise to leave when things get out-of-hand and let the vultures fester.
U tell me, U reap what U sow, and 'Rome wasn't built in a day', cheap and abundant vice would indeed be the downfall of our society.
Good luck and God Bless.
Rgds,
C6.
References:
- HWZ Thread, 1April2010: 'Romanian diplomat Ionescu was the driver in fatal hit-and-run'
- ST Dec 2, 2008: 'ICA officer charged': "... Chung was charged in a district court on Tuesday for allegedly receiving sexual favours on five occasions from 36-year-old Chinese national Li Yanxiu. Court documents state that in return, he had recommended her Special Pass be extended. ..."
- ST 17Nov 2009: '2 NEA officers charged over sexual bribe': "... Mohamed Rafi Abdul Alim, 32, was a Certis Cisco Security enforcement officer when he allegedly attempted to get sexual service from a 15-year-old girl in return for not taking action against her for smoking-related offences on March 10. ... "
snipes14, 3May2010, 12:51 PM wrote: I think TS has an extremely black and white way of looking at the world. By the time I was 16 I knew that it was anything but that.
Your opinion, I politely reject.
Dun think my opinions the extreme, think the 'hourly' rates are the 'extreme'.
Serviced apts, by law, as I u'stand, CANNOT rent U apt for <7days- this right is reserved for the benefit of Hotels only. So this aspect the business of genuine hotels and Backpackers inns is established and provided adequately for. For those requiring the facilitation of vice to survive, a better business model is called for and the powers that be ought see to that.
Singapore is a small place, not like maybe M'sia where there is need to stop driving- rest- drive on, Singapore for ANY form of vehicular traffic is often a terminal destination. For those engaging in any decent restful activity, they have ample backpacker's hostels and daily rated budget hotels to choose from. In addition, backpacker's hostels serve a valid tourist niche and Singapore as a safe and healthy destination, should actively promote their proper development as they woo the young and trendy traveler.
In regard to Budget Hotels (BH) running mostly hourly rates, these can at best be described as controversial businesses moving down a slippery slope and, predictably bringing down the morals of Singaporeans with it.
I doubt and tourist inadvertently residing in any such hotel would return with in any way, a good impression Singapore. The streets filled with 'walkers', its 'ti kor pek' citizens- the main clientele.
Romanian diplomat Ionescu undoubtedly went overboard whilst performing his 'duties' here, both 'provider' and connoisseur of vice here, could the conduciveness of the current local scene have played a part?
Hourly rated BH have the commercial imperative towards creating sleazy districts, since by virtue of their business model, they become obligated to promote promiscuity, both nationally as well as internationally. One cannot have one's cake and eat it as the sleaze drives away genuine tourist, leaving the BH with no choice but to exploit the route of sleaze facilitation.
This stratagem also requires a covert means of silencing as well as dispersing dissenting existing residents; and to facilitate profit from the momentum of vice, the compromise of government administration through bribery and other covert/ coercive means towards achieving social degradation.
Government officials can also be expected to be often bribed as the visible viability and 'profitability' of such establishments tempt more to follow.
NONE of the outcomes of such vice are of any social NOR economic benefit to our society nor that of our surrounding neighbors.
Whilst the banning of hourly rates would not preclude such vice from occurring, it would however enable the policing and regulation of such vices to be much done much more efficiently and cost effectively.
The ultimate 'victims' of this current situation would be ultimately be Singaporeans/ 'Permanent residents' of Singapore since tourist on family vacations are unlikely to patronize such services AND require hourly accommodation in this respect.
Persons from neighboring countries might also, through the internet, make 'bookings' with popular girls, however, a host of other problems by association accompany this breed of 'tourist'.
The fiscal and social cost of continuing to allow hourly rated hotels is estimated to be immense not perpetuated by many civil servants, whom I feel are ill prepared to perform the currently onerous duties as 'anti-vice' officers- a few of whom have been publicly admonished having sought favours from charges whom they were employed to supervise/ penalize [Dec 2, 2008: 'ICA officer charged'], [ST 17Nov 2009: '2 NEA officers charged over sexual bribe']. Has promiscuity entrenched itself as popular culture in Singapore such that civil servants are equally tempted. Our 'pay more to prevent corruption' policies have indeed failed.
snipes14 wrote: What's wrong with prostitution? Some say that it's evil, that it's exploitation of women.
Prostitution might be an 'ancient profession', yes, but it not be 'facilitated' in the way it currently is in modern day Singapore.
But there are no moral absolutes in the world:What is evil or not is purely a creation of society.
As for exploitation, has the TS considered that there are some women who go into prostitution willingly?
An article about the legalized prostitution industry in New Zealand:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7927461.stm
The way I see it, its a win win situation. There's a demand, and people willing to satisfy that demand for money.
"... Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew admits in his biography that prostitution is an industry that is impossible to ban and it is better to have it in the open than driven underground....", replacing prostitution with any other vice for that matter wouldn't be too far fetched an argument to ponder.
Perhaps then it wouldn't be too unwise to leave when things get out-of-hand and let the vultures fester.
If it's banned, where are people going to get their release?
Good luck and God Bless.
Rgds,
C6.
References:
- HWZ Thread, 1April2010: 'Romanian diplomat Ionescu was the driver in fatal hit-and-run'
- ST Dec 2, 2008: 'ICA officer charged': "... Chung was charged in a district court on Tuesday for allegedly receiving sexual favours on five occasions from 36-year-old Chinese national Li Yanxiu. Court documents state that in return, he had recommended her Special Pass be extended. ..."
- ST 17Nov 2009: '2 NEA officers charged over sexual bribe': "... Mohamed Rafi Abdul Alim, 32, was a Certis Cisco Security enforcement officer when he allegedly attempted to get sexual service from a 15-year-old girl in return for not taking action against her for smoking-related offences on March 10. ... "
__________________
This post has been posted to the following forums for discussion:
A1forum:
04May2010: Nat Issues: Hourly hotel rates and Vice, please Say NO.
HWZ
04May2010: CAL: Hourly hotel rates and Vice, I say BAN.
SG forums:
04May2010: Budget hotels upset residents
SBoy forums:
01May2010: Crime: Hourly hotel rates and Vice, I say BAN.
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